August 29, 2024 • 2hr 38min
#765: Chris Sacca and Scott Glenn
The Tim Ferriss Show
Key Takeaways
- Successful founders have an "inevitability of success" - they speak with certainty about their vision and future success, not conditionally
- Empathy and diverse life experiences are crucial for entrepreneurs and investors to build products that truly solve problems for users
- Reading books like "Not Fade Away" and "How to Get Filthy Rich in Rising Asia" can help develop empathy and perspective
- Success should be defined internally rather than by external role models - focus on what's truly important to you
- Having shitty jobs and diverse work experiences is valuable for developing grit and understanding different perspectives
- Playing "offense" rather than "defense" in business and life by being selective about commitments and proactively pursuing opportunities
- Developing self-confidence as an actor through formative experiences like working with great directors and co-stars
- The importance of being a good student and willing to fail/look foolish to learn new skills
- Cultivating "luck" through being open to opportunities and developing skills that attract great teachers/mentors
- The value of a supportive long-term relationship in navigating life and career challenges
- Maintaining physical fitness and mental sharpness into old age through consistent exercise, breathing practices, and challenging yourself
- The power of staying present and "getting out of your own way" as an actor to deliver spontaneous, authentic performances
Introduction
This episode features segments from two different interviews - one with Chris Sacca, an early-stage technology investor and entrepreneur, and another with Scott Glenn, a veteran actor with a career spanning over 60 years. Both guests share insights on success, skill development, relationships, and maintaining vitality throughout life.
Chris Sacca discusses his experiences as an investor and entrepreneur, sharing perspectives on what makes founders successful and how to develop empathy and diverse experiences. Scott Glenn reflects on his long acting career, physical training regimen, and lessons learned about performance and life.
Topics Discussed
Traits of Successful Founders (6:53)
Chris Sacca discusses the qualities he sees in the most successful founders he's backed:
- They have an "inevitability of success" - speaking with certainty about their vision
- No conditional statements - they just know their company will be big
- Examples: Kevin Systrom of Instagram, Evan Williams with Twitter, Patrick and John Collison of Stripe
Sacca shares an anecdote about Travis Kalanick's competitiveness, revealing he was ranked #2 globally in Wii Tennis:
"Travis just says, well, let me take you to the global leaderboard. I'm sorry. I got, you know, I didn't mean to be holding out. And he goes to the global leaderport. And Travis Kalanick was ranked number two in the world at Wii tennis in his spare time."Developing Empathy and Diverse Experiences (9:55)
Sacca emphasizes the importance of empathy and diverse experiences for entrepreneurs and investors:
- Reading books like "Not Fade Away" and "How to Get Filthy Rich in Rising Asia" to develop perspective
- Traveling abroad and putting yourself in vulnerable situations
- Volunteering and spending time with people from different backgrounds
- Having diverse work experiences, including "shitty jobs"
He argues this helps build better products by understanding users' needs: "I think we'd all be much better off if we were able to find opportunities for our CS students to go study abroad for our MBAs to actually spend some time around poor people and to start building these more diverse perspectives."
Defining Success Internally (18:37)
Sacca reflects on how his definition of success has evolved:
- At 30, admired venture capitalists like John Doerr and Mike Moritz
- At 40, focused on defining success internally rather than through external role models
- Prioritizing family and being selective about social commitments
He emphasizes: "I've had to decide, okay, what's really important to me. That's my wife and my kids. And, you know, I'm just not that social anymore. I just don't hang out with people that much."
Playing Offense vs Defense in Business (34:06)
Sacca shares two key shifts that changed his business approach:
- Moving to Lake Tahoe - allowed him to be more selective and proactive
- Playing "offense" rather than "defense" - focusing on desired relationships/opportunities rather than reacting to requests
He explains: "I was just playing defense the whole time. I was taking these coffee meetings, listening to these poor pitches, being friendly and kind of obliging people with their ideas. But I'd spend all day in these meetings, and I'd get home, and I'd be like, s**t. I haven't actually accomplished anything."
Scott Glenn's Journey to Idaho (38:44)
Glenn shares how he ended up living in Idaho after a successful acting career:
- Went on a challenging wilderness expedition in Idaho's Bighorn Crags
- Fell in love with the landscape and lifestyle
- Decided to move there to reset his approach to acting and life
He reflects: "What I discovered, this sounds woo woo and whatever, but I don't really give a s**t cause it's true. It was like the family fell in love with each other again. I had been sort of living in the blues in LA because of what I do for a living. And all that fell away up here."
Developing Self-Confidence as an Actor (44:59)
Glenn discusses how working on Apocalypse Now transformed his confidence as an actor:
- Initially lacked confidence in his on-camera abilities
- Working with Francis Ford Coppola and Marlon Brando boosted his self-assurance
- Returned from filming with newfound confidence (and some arrogance)
He shares: "I told Francis later on that I got the greatest gift you could give any artist in the Philippines, which was self confidence."
Learning from Burt Lancaster (49:00)
Glenn recounts how Burt Lancaster took him under his wing on a film set:
- Lancaster offered to teach Glenn about film acting over 3 months
- Taught him technical aspects of working with cameras
- Provided invaluable mentorship early in Glenn's career
Glenn recalls Lancaster saying: "I seriously was watching you and I think you've got something. But if you'll permit me to be a gigantic pain in the a*s over the next three months, I'll teach you whatever I know."
Fully Embodying Characters (54:41)
Glenn shares his approach to deeply inhabiting characters, using the example of Wes Hightower in Urban Cowboy:
- Lived as the character 24/7 during filming
- Got arrested and into trouble while in character
- His wife left temporarily because she couldn't handle living with the character
He reflects: "I remember at one point I came back and none of Carol's clothes. There was no presence of them in the apartment. And there had been when I had gone to work that day and I'm thinking, what's going on?"
The Impact of Childhood Illness (1:06:12)
Glenn discusses how having scarlet fever as a child shaped his life:
- Nearly died at age 9
- Left him with hearing damage
- Turned him into an athlete to overcome physical challenges
- Developed his imagination and love of fantasy
He reflects: "That experience turned me into an athlete, turned me into someone who had learned to not only live with, but fall in love with my fantasies and my imagination."
Discovering Acting (1:12:42)
Glenn shares how he stumbled into acting:
- Originally wanted to be a writer
- Took an acting class on a friend's suggestion to improve his dialogue writing
- Had an epiphany during his first monologue that he was meant to be an actor
He recalls: "For the first and only time in my life, literally a light bulb went off between my eyes and I thought, holy s**t, I'm an actor that fast. And it wasn't like, oh, I'm so fulfilled. It was for the first time my life made sense to me."
Converting to Judaism (1:21:12)
Glenn discusses his decision to convert to Judaism when marrying his wife:
- Wanted to share any potential persecution his wife might face as a Jew
- Initially struggled to find a rabbi willing to convert him
- Eventually found a rabbi who appreciated his sincere motivations
He explains his reasoning to the rabbi: "Because I met this woman, and I love her, and we want to travel, and I don't want to go anywhere in the world where somebody's pointing a gun at her and not at me for the same reason, period."
Letting Go as an Actor (1:28:44)
Glenn describes experiences of fully inhabiting characters and "getting out of his own way":
- On Urban Cowboy, lived as the character 24/7
- In the play Killer Joe, allowed complete spontaneity in performances
- On The Leftovers, delivered a 7-page monologue without self-consciousness
He shares his approach: "Stay out of the way. Do not make editorial decisions or try to work for that big moment. Have no conversations with Emmy or Oscar. Just stay out of the way of this and let it happen."
Physical Training Regimen at 85 (1:49:33)
Glenn details his daily exercise routine at age 85:
- Ear massage and brain tapping from Chinese medicine
- Humming outside in cold weather to stimulate the vagus nerve
- "Baby fit" exercises inspired by Russian special ops
- Kettlebell swings and pushups
- Breath hold exercises for lung capacity and meditation
He emphasizes the importance of breathing: "I believe that easily the most important muscle you have control over...for sure is the diaphragm. Nothing else even gets close."
Cultivating "Luck" and Opportunities (2:05:46)
Glenn reflects on how he's attracted amazing teachers and opportunities throughout his life:
- Being open to unexpected opportunities
- Willingness to be a good student and look foolish while learning
- Developing skills that attract great mentors
He shares: "The embarrassment of screwing up and being clumsy and falling on my a*s in front of people is not great enough to keep me from doing it. And that's the trick to being a good student."
Advice for the Next Generation (2:30:31)
Glenn offers life advice, inspired by Laurence Olivier and his father:
- "If you love it, make it your life."
- Be tenacious - keep getting back up when knocked down
- Develop "strong jaw muscles" - learn to bite on and not let go
He shares Olivier's advice: "Develop very strong jaw muscles. Learn how to bite on and not let go...If you're a monk outside the gates with a beggar's bowl and you stay out there long enough, they'll finally get sick of seeing you open the gates and let you in."
Conclusion
This episode offers a wealth of insights from two accomplished individuals in different fields. Chris Sacca provides valuable perspectives on what makes founders successful and how to develop the empathy and diverse experiences crucial for entrepreneurship and investing. Scott Glenn's reflections on his long acting career offer lessons on developing confidence, fully committing to one's craft, and maintaining vitality throughout life. Both guests emphasize the importance of defining success on your own terms, being open to opportunities, and cultivating the tenacity to pursue your goals relentlessly.