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July 31, 2024 • 2hr 16min
#759: Nassim Nicholas Taleb and Todd McFarlane
The Tim Ferriss Show
This episode features segments from two different interviews: one with Nassim Nicholas Taleb and Scott Patterson, and another with Todd McFarlane. Taleb is a bestselling author known for books like "The Black Swan" and "Antifragile". McFarlane is a legendary comic book artist, creator of Spawn, and co-founder of Image Comics. The conversations cover a wide range of topics including risk management, creative independence, and disrupting established industries.
#759: Nassim Nicholas Taleb and Todd McFarlane
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Key Takeaways
- Nassim Nicholas Taleb emphasizes the importance of being independent rather than contrarian. He cares more about reputation among a select group of respected peers rather than the general public.
- Taleb advocates for skepticism about important things that matter, not just small things. He looks to historical thinkers who were fundamentally skeptical for inspiration.
- The precautionary principle should be applied to risks that are fat-tailed, global in scale, and represent systemic risk to humanity. Examples include pandemics and wars.
- Todd McFarlane's success came from challenging the status quo and pushing creative boundaries, even when faced with resistance from editors and executives.
- McFarlane's redesign of Spider-Man, emphasizing the "spider" aspects over the "man", catapulted his career despite initial pushback. His style eventually became the new standard.
- The creation of Venom was a "happy accident" that came from McFarlane's desire to get Spider-Man back in the classic red and blue costume.
- McFarlane emphasizes the importance of efficiency and meeting deadlines in the comic book industry. His ability to both pencil and ink allowed him to take on more work.
- Image Comics was founded by top artists leaving Marvel to have more creative control and ownership over their work. This shook up the industry.
Introduction
This episode features segments from two different interviews: one with Nassim Nicholas Taleb and Scott Patterson, and another with Todd McFarlane. Taleb is a bestselling author known for books like "The Black Swan" and "Antifragile". McFarlane is a legendary comic book artist, creator of Spawn, and co-founder of Image Comics. The conversations cover a wide range of topics including risk management, creative independence, and disrupting established industries.
Topics Discussed
Nassim Nicholas Taleb on Reputation and Skepticism (7:13)
Taleb discusses his approach to reputation and criticism:
- He cares more about reputation among a select group of respected peers rather than the general public
- This allows him to take more aggressive positions without worrying about widespread criticism
- He emphasizes being independent rather than contrarian
- "Robustness is when you care more about the few who like your work than the multitude who hates it," Taleb states
Taleb advocates for skepticism about important things that matter, not just small things:
- He looks to historical thinkers who were fundamentally skeptical for inspiration
- Examples include Pierre Bayle and David Hume
- Skepticism should be applied to things that can actually impact your life, not abstract concepts
The Precautionary Principle (23:50)
Taleb explains the precautionary principle and how to apply it:
- The principle states that uncertainty about certain risks means we should take precautions against them
- It should be applied to risks that are fat-tailed, global in scale, and represent systemic risk to humanity
- Examples of areas where it applies include pandemics and wars
- Areas where it doesn't apply as strongly include things that can be diversified or insured against
- "If you have uncertainty about the climate, stop these models, all right? Just don't pollute. Try to use something else. Try to mitigate." Taleb argues
Todd McFarlane's Early Career (33:21)
McFarlane discusses his path to breaking into the comic book industry:
- He received over 300 rejection letters before getting his first job
- Persisted through rejections while in college, sending samples continuously
- Got his first job at Marvel 3 weeks before graduating
- Emphasizes the importance of both drawing skills and storytelling ability
- Meeting deadlines was crucial for maintaining steady work in the industry
Redesigning Spider-Man (1:55:46)
McFarlane explains how he revolutionized the look of Spider-Man:
- Shifted emphasis from "man" to "spider", making the character more insect-like
- Added more webbing to the costume
- Created "spaghetti webbing" to give more depth and volume
- Faced resistance from editors who wanted to maintain the classic look
- Sales increased dramatically despite (or because of) the changes
- "I probably could have done what I did with a lower tier character, but not Spider-Man. Spider-man at this point, again, they're a public company. He is on their checks." McFarlane notes
The Creation of Venom (1:49:08)
McFarlane reveals the origins of the iconic villain Venom:
- Designed as a way to get Spider-Man back in the classic red and blue costume
- Initially conceived as an alien creature before being made human
- First appeared in Amazing Spider-Man #300
- Became hugely popular with fans, leading to multiple appearances
- "Venom comes out, has a big play, an issue 300, amazing Spider Man. 300 sales go crazy. We knew we had something on our hand" McFarlane recalls
Founding Image Comics (48:36)
McFarlane describes the events leading to the creation of Image Comics:
- Top artists at Marvel were frustrated with lack of creative control and ownership
- Initially planned with Rob Liefeld and Erik Larsen, grew to include more artists
- Announced departure to Marvel executives, shocking the industry
- Aimed to create a third option beyond just Marvel and DC for comic creators
- The founding members had produced 44 of the top 50 selling comics that year
- "We were literally the comic book equivalent of the dream team, the basketball team of that was happening in basketball at that time." McFarlane states
McFarlane's Approach to Business and Negotiations (1:25:13)
McFarlane shares some unconventional tactics he's used:
- Developed ability to work long hours without breaks by not eating or drinking during signings
- Uses discomfort (heat, stuffy rooms) to his advantage in negotiations
- Emphasizes the importance of finding advantages wherever possible
- "If you don't put anything into your top hole, nothing comes out of any of the bottom holes." McFarlane explains his endurance strategy
Conclusion
This episode provides insights from two very different but equally iconoclastic thinkers. Nassim Nicholas Taleb offers a framework for applying skepticism and precaution to major risks facing humanity. Todd McFarlane's story demonstrates the power of challenging established norms in creative industries, even in the face of significant resistance. Both emphasize the importance of independent thinking and not being overly concerned with widespread approval. Their success came from having the courage to pursue their visions despite pushback from established players in their respective fields.