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July 17, 2024 • 2hr 33min
#755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel
The Tim Ferriss Show
This episode features segments from two previous interviews - one with actor Hugh Jackman and one with psychotherapist Esther Perel. Host Tim Ferriss curated these segments to celebrate the podcast's 10 year anniversary and passing 1 billion downloads.
Hugh Jackman is an Academy Award nominated, Golden Globe and Tony Award winning performer known for roles like Wolverine and Jean Valjean. Esther Perel is a renowned psychotherapist, author and podcast host who specializes in relationships and sexuality.
#755: Hugh Jackman and Esther Perel
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Key Takeaways
- Hugh Jackman on meditation: Practices transcendental meditation twice daily, using a mantra to quiet the "monkey mind". Finds it gives him clearer intention, more purposeful listening, and a finer energy.
- Hugh Jackman on performing: Feels a natural energy and joy on stage. Has strict routines around sleep, diet, and preparation to maintain energy for performances.
- Hugh Jackman on career decisions: Made a contract with himself to give acting 7 days a week for 5 years after drama school. Emphasizes following gut instincts on opportunities, even if they don't seem logical.
- Esther Perel on relationships: Emphasizes the importance of flexibility, creativity and negotiation in long-term relationships as needs and circumstances change over time.
- Esther Perel on infidelity: Views infidelity as a complex human experience that reveals much about love, desire, and commitment. Encourages thoughtful consideration before disclosure.
- Esther Perel on honesty in relationships: Believes total transparency is not always best. Privacy and discretion also have value in relationships.
- Esther Perel on marriage: Sees marriage as providing structure and ritual that many find meaningful, but acknowledges high divorce rates and challenges of modern relationships.
Introduction
This episode features segments from two previous interviews - one with actor Hugh Jackman and one with psychotherapist Esther Perel. Host Tim Ferriss curated these segments to celebrate the podcast's 10 year anniversary and passing 1 billion downloads.
Hugh Jackman is an Academy Award nominated, Golden Globe and Tony Award winning performer known for roles like Wolverine and Jean Valjean. Esther Perel is a renowned psychotherapist, author and podcast host who specializes in relationships and sexuality.
Topics Discussed
Hugh Jackman on Meditation and Energy Management (10:35)
Hugh Jackman describes his daily transcendental meditation practice, which he's done for nearly 30 years:
- Meditates twice daily using a mantra to quiet the "monkey mind"
- Finds it gives him clearer intention, more purposeful listening, and a "finer energy"
- Compares the effect to cloudy water settling and becoming clear
On managing energy for performances:
- Has strict routines around sleep, diet, and preparation
- Doesn't drink alcohol before shows
- Takes time to get quiet and connect before going on stage
- "I always take a minute before I go on stage...to pause and just connect with the senses."
Hugh Jackman on Career Decisions (25:32)
Jackman made a contract with himself after drama school:
- Committed to giving acting 7 days a week for 5 years
- Vowed to never wait for the phone to ring, but to be proactive
- Set a deadline of age 31 to reassess if acting wasn't working out
On making career decisions:
- Emphasizes the importance of following gut instincts, even if opportunities don't seem logical
- Regrets turning down a role in The Boy from Oz early in his career because it didn't fit his "plan"
- "From that moment on, I've always followed my gut on stuff, even if it doesn't make sense."
Esther Perel on Relationships and Infidelity (1:02:27)
Perel discusses her views on trust and vulnerability in relationships:
- Sees trust and vulnerability as interrelated, not necessarily sequential
- Believes couples need flexibility to renegotiate relationship terms over time
- Emphasizes the importance of both partners feeling equal power in decision-making
On infidelity:
- Views it as a complex human experience that reveals much about love and commitment
- Encourages thoughtful consideration before disclosure of affairs
- Explores meanings and motives behind infidelity, not just actions
- "What is it that you want to tell your partner? ... We're not just talking about a series of facts. We're talking about the meaning and the motives of the transgression."
Honesty and Privacy in Relationships (1:33:04)
Perel discusses cultural differences in views on honesty:
- American culture tends to value radical honesty and transparency
- Many other cultures place more value on discretion and privacy
- Believes total honesty is not always best for relationships
- "Honesty is not about laying it all out there. It's actually about thinking about what the consequences will be for the other person to live with the truth."
On balancing honesty and privacy:
- Complete sharing does not always equal caring in relationships
- Privacy and having some separate experiences can be healthy
- Couples should negotiate boundaries around sharing/privacy
Marriage in Modern Society (2:08:36)
Perel's thoughts on the role of marriage today:
- Provides structure, ritual and tradition that many find meaningful
- Offers a "buttress" for commitment in an era of fluid relationships
- Acknowledges high divorce rates, especially for second marriages (65%)
- Believes focus should be on improving "coupledom" more than marriage itself
- "I don't ask so much, why do people marry? I ask more, why do people so often bring the leftovers to their partner, while at the same time wanting their relationships to be so glorious?"
Advice for Relationships (2:21:48)
Perel's key relationship advice:
- Bring creativity and effort to long-term relationships, not just affairs
- Review and renegotiate relationship terms as needs change over time
- Focus on doing things for others to combat isolation and find meaning
- Take responsibility for your role in relationship dynamics
- "There's always more you can do for another. Just don't have your day without having done something for someone that you don't know."
Conclusion
This episode provided insights from two very different guests on topics related to performance, relationships, and personal growth. Hugh Jackman shared his practices around meditation and energy management that have supported his successful acting career. He emphasized the importance of following gut instincts when making major career decisions.
Esther Perel offered her expertise on modern relationships, discussing complex topics like infidelity, honesty, and the role of marriage today. She encouraged a nuanced view of relationships that balances honesty with privacy and allows for flexibility as couples' needs change over time. Both guests highlighted the value of self-reflection and taking responsibility for one's choices and actions.