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July 2, 2024 • 3hr 8min
#751: Elizabeth Gilbert and Jack Kornfield
The Tim Ferriss Show
This episode features segments from two previous interviews - one with author Elizabeth Gilbert and one with meditation teacher Jack Kornfield. Elizabeth Gilbert discusses her relationship with Rayya Elias, learning to say no, and trusting her intuition. Jack Kornfield shares insights from his experiences as a Buddhist monk, working with trauma survivors, and teaching meditation and mindfulness practices in the West.
#751: Elizabeth Gilbert and Jack Kornfield
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Key Takeaways
- Elizabeth Gilbert learned to say "no" without remorse by checking in with her inner compass and using simple, direct language without explanations
- Jack Kornfield emphasizes the importance of compassion, loving-kindness, and forgiveness practices for healing trauma and cultivating inner peace
- Meditation and mindfulness can help develop wisdom, compassion and the ability to be present with difficult emotions
- Loving-kindness meditation can be a powerful practice for developing self-compassion and compassion for others
- Rituals and rites of passage are important for helping people process transitions and trauma
- We all have inner wisdom that we can access through contemplative practices
Introduction
This episode features segments from two previous interviews - one with author Elizabeth Gilbert and one with meditation teacher Jack Kornfield. Elizabeth Gilbert discusses her relationship with Rayya Elias, learning to say no, and trusting her intuition. Jack Kornfield shares insights from his experiences as a Buddhist monk, working with trauma survivors, and teaching meditation and mindfulness practices in the West.
Topics Discussed
Elizabeth Gilbert on Rayya Elias (07:04)
Elizabeth Gilbert describes her relationship with Rayya Elias, who she calls "the love of my life." They were friends for 17 years before Gilbert realized she had fallen in love with Elias. Gilbert describes Elias as:
- A "lesbian, Syrian, Detroit-raised, rock and roll hairdresser, filmmaker, author, musician"
- Someone who had lived "right on the edge of life" including struggles with addiction
- The "strongest, most extraordinary person" Gilbert had ever met
- Gilbert's "guide" and "teacher"
When Elias was diagnosed with terminal cancer, Gilbert realized she could no longer keep her love hidden. She separated from her husband to be with Elias until the end of her life. Gilbert says Elias "remained the alpha in the entire situation" even while dying, refusing to cooperate with Gilbert's ideas of a peaceful, enlightened death.
Learning to Say No (23:49)
Gilbert discusses learning to say "no" without remorse by checking in with her inner compass. Key points:
- She treats her email inbox like her home and deletes messages from people who "invite themselves in" uninvited
- For people she cares about, she writes back with a simple "Thank you so much. I'm really honored that you invited me to this, but I'm not going to be able to do this at this time."
- She learned from Byron Katie to give a "simple no" without explanations that could be used to manipulate
- The closer the relationship, the harder it is to say no, but it's important to practice
Gilbert emphasizes: "The more words you add after [no], the more entangled you get."
Trusting Your Intuition (33:07)
Gilbert discusses the importance of trusting your intuition and inner wisdom:
- The body knows first - we need to learn to listen to our physical sensations and gut feelings
- Many people ignore their intuition due to social conditioning and pressure
- She gives the example of people who knew their wedding was a mistake but went through with it anyway
- Learning to trust your intuition is "the work of the second half of my life"
Jack Kornfield's Background (40:06)
Jack Kornfield shares about his childhood and path to becoming a Buddhist monk:
- Grew up with an abusive, unpredictable father who was both brilliant and mentally unstable
- Became a "peacemaker" in his family to try to smooth tensions
- Went to Dartmouth College and became interested in Asian philosophy and Buddhism
- Joined the Peace Corps and was assigned to Thailand, where he eventually became a Buddhist monk
Experiences as a Buddhist Monk (49:28)
Kornfield describes his experiences training as a Buddhist monk in Thailand and Burma:
- Waking up at 3:30am for meditation and chanting
- Going on alms rounds to collect food for the day
- Sitting in meditation for many hours, sometimes all night
- Dealing with physical pain, hunger, and difficult emotions
- Having mystical experiences like out-of-body states
- Spending 500 days in intensive silent meditation retreat
Compassion and Loving-Kindness (1:42:18)
Kornfield explains the importance of compassion and loving-kindness practices:
- Compassion involves recognizing suffering and wanting to help alleviate it
- Loving-kindness meditation cultivates goodwill towards oneself and others
- These practices can help heal trauma and develop self-compassion
- Even brief loving-kindness practice can have profound effects on wellbeing
He guides listeners through a brief loving-kindness meditation, saying: "May I hold all of the joys and sorrows of my life with tenderness and kindness. May I hold my struggles with compassion. May I be filled with loving kindness and loving awareness."
Working with Trauma (2:40:07)
Kornfield discusses his work with trauma survivors, including combat veterans:
- Creates a safe container for people to share their stories through rituals and storytelling
- Uses ancient myths and stories to help contextualize trauma experiences
- Incorporates group chanting and singing to help people feel held and supported
- Emphasizes the importance of self-forgiveness and compassion in healing trauma
Rites of Passage (2:50:32)
Kornfield discusses the importance of rites of passage and initiation rituals:
- Many cultures have traditional rites of passage that are now lacking in modern society
- Without proper initiation, young people may seek out dangerous ways to prove themselves
- Suggests looking into the work of Michael Meade on creating modern rites of passage
Developing Inner Wisdom (2:56:41)
Kornfield emphasizes that we all have inner wisdom we can access:
- Contemplative practices like meditation help us connect with our innate wisdom
- We don't need to seek answers externally - we can learn to listen to our own hearts
- Even brief pauses to check in with ourselves can yield profound insights
He guides Tim Ferriss through a visualization exercise to access inner wisdom, demonstrating how we can tap into our own guidance.
Conclusion
This episode offers profound insights from two renowned teachers on developing self-compassion, trusting our intuition, healing trauma, and accessing inner wisdom. Elizabeth Gilbert's experiences learning to say "no" and follow her heart provide practical guidance for setting boundaries and honoring our truth. Jack Kornfield's teachings on meditation, loving-kindness, and working with difficult emotions offer powerful tools for cultivating peace and resilience. Both emphasize the importance of listening to our inner compass and treating ourselves with kindness as we navigate life's challenges. Their wisdom invites us to develop a more compassionate relationship with ourselves and others, tapping into the wellspring of insight and love within our own hearts.