October 8, 2024 • 2hr 28min

#2210 - Calley Means & Casey Means, MD

The Joe Rogan Experience

In this episode, Joe Rogan interviews Dr. Casey Means and Calley Means, siblings who have become outspoken critics of the American healthcare system and advocates for addressing the root causes of chronic disease. Casey is a Stanford-trained physician who left clinical practice to focus on metabolic health and prevention. Calley previously worked as a consultant for pharmaceutical and food companies before having an awakening about the harm being caused by these industries. Together they wrote the book "Good Energy" about transforming health through lifestyle and policy changes.

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Key Takeaways

The American healthcare system is fundamentally broken, with perverse incentives that prioritize profits over health outcomes
There has been a dramatic rise in chronic diseases like obesity, diabetes, cancer, and Alzheimer's in recent decades, especially among children and young adults
This health crisis is largely driven by poor diet, lack of exercise, environmental toxins, and other lifestyle factors - not genetics
The food, pharmaceutical, and healthcare industries have captured regulatory agencies and academic institutions, corrupting research and clinical guidelines
There is an urgent need for radical reform of the healthcare system, food policies, and environmental regulations to address root causes of disease
Empowering individuals with information and incentivizing healthy behaviors could rapidly improve population health
Political leadership willing to take on entrenched corporate interests is needed to drive meaningful change

Introduction

In this episode, Joe Rogan interviews Dr. Casey Means and Calley Means, siblings who have become outspoken critics of the American healthcare system and advocates for addressing the root causes of chronic disease. Casey is a Stanford-trained physician who left clinical practice to focus on metabolic health and prevention. Calley previously worked as a consultant for pharmaceutical and food companies before having an awakening about the harm being caused by these industries. Together they wrote the book "Good Energy" about transforming health through lifestyle and policy changes.

Topics Discussed

The Broken Healthcare System (0:50)

Calley describes how he used to work as a lobbyist for pharmaceutical and food companies, helping to steer money to researchers and organizations to downplay risks of opioids and defend unhealthy foods. He realized these industries were profiting from addiction and chronic disease.

"What I realized fundamentally is that we are profiting. The biggest industries, the biggest spenders in the country are profiting from kids, particularly getting addicted, sick, in fear, and then drugging them and profiting from that."

The healthcare system takes good people and gives them plausible deniability about the harm being caused
There are high rates of depression and burnout among doctors and healthcare executives
Major institutions like academic medical centers have been captured by industry interests

The Chronic Disease Epidemic (9:31)

Casey explains how she became disillusioned with the medical system after seeing the dramatic rise in chronic diseases, especially among children and young adults:

74% of Americans are overweight or obese
50% of adults have prediabetes or type 2 diabetes (up from 1% in 1950)
Alzheimer's and dementia rates are skyrocketing, including early-onset cases
1 in 36 children now has autism (up from 1 in 150 in 2000)
Infertility, erectile dysfunction, autoimmune diseases are all rapidly increasing

Casey argues this health crisis is fundamentally driven by metabolic dysfunction caused by our modern diet and lifestyle, not genetics. The medical system is failing to address root causes.

Environmental Toxins and Hormonal Disruption (23:40)

The guests discuss how environmental toxins are contributing to health issues:

Plastics contain xenoestrogens that act like hormones in the body
Pesticides like atrazine increase estrogen production
These toxins are leading to earlier puberty in girls and feminization of males
The food system is full of additives and chemicals that disrupt metabolism

"We are living in this estrogen stew. That's hard to get away from."

Corruption of Medical Research and Guidelines (27:54)

The guests explain how the pharmaceutical and food industries have corrupted medical research and clinical guidelines:

Most studies are funded by industry, leading to biased results
Medical schools and professional organizations take millions from industry
Clinical guidelines often promote drugs over lifestyle interventions
The American Diabetes Association says sugar intake doesn't need to be restricted for diabetics

"The American Academy of Pediatrics right now is saying that if your child is overweight, slightly overweight. Overweight. Twelve years old. Dietary intervention. Don't wait. It says do not wait to see if dietary intervention work. Ozempic."

The Flaws of Evidence-Based Medicine (59:40)

The guests critique how "evidence-based medicine" is used to dismiss common sense approaches:

Randomized controlled trials can't study complex lifestyle interventions
The "gold standard" of evidence favors drugs over food/exercise
We don't need studies to know plastics and pesticides are harmful
Doctors are not trained to see the body as an interconnected system

"We've somehow decided to separate the brain from the body as if they're different things, when in fact, they're all just made of cells."

The Food System and Agricultural Policy (1:59:36)

The guests discuss how agricultural policies and the food system drive poor health:

Farm subsidies make unhealthy processed foods artificially cheap
School lunch programs serve ultra-processed foods to children
Food companies engineer products to be addictive
The average piece of produce travels 1500 miles and loses nutrients

"We are literally eating dead food that has lost all of its magic, that is God given for us to have cells that function properly."

Potential Solutions and Political Action (2:25:41)

The guests outline some potential solutions and political actions needed:

Appoint leaders to regulatory agencies who aren't compromised by industry
Reorient NIH research to focus on root causes of disease
Allow HSA/FSA funds to be used for exercise, healthy food, etc.
Reform agricultural subsidies and school lunch programs
Empower individuals with health data (e.g. continuous glucose monitors)
Elect political leaders willing to take on entrenched corporate interests

"We need moral clarity. Do we need studies to tell us that regenerative ranching and more natural processes, and not raping our soil to where there's only 40 crop cycles left and try to outhack everything and spray poison over all the crops? Like, we just need to get back to basics."

Conclusion

The guests argue that the chronic disease epidemic is an existential threat to society that requires urgent action. While the problems are complex, they believe solutions are possible with the right political leadership and public awareness. They encourage listeners to educate themselves, make healthy lifestyle choices, and push for policy changes. Ultimately, they frame this as a spiritual issue - recognizing the preciousness of life and fighting to create a healthier world for future generations.