September 17, 2024 • 2hr 32min

#2203 - Eric Goode & Jeremy McBride

The Joe Rogan Experience

Joe Rogan welcomes Emmy-nominated filmmakers Eric Goode and Jeremy McBride to discuss their new HBO documentary series "Chimp Crazy". The series explores the world of people who keep chimpanzees and other primates as pets in the United States. Goode and McBride previously created the hit Netflix series "Tiger King" about exotic cat owners. The conversation covers the making of "Chimp Crazy", the dangers of keeping chimpanzees as pets, the psychology of exotic animal owners, wildlife conservation issues, and reflections on humanity's relationship with nature and animals.

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Key Takeaways

Eric Goode and Jeremy McBride are Emmy-nominated filmmakers behind the HBO docu-series "Chimp Crazy" about people who keep chimpanzees as pets
There are only about 1300 chimpanzees remaining in captivity in the US, with about half in sanctuaries
Keeping chimpanzees as pets is still legal in about 20 states in the US
Chimpanzees are extremely strong, intelligent, and dangerous - they can be up to 5 times stronger than humans
Many people who keep exotic animals as pets seem to have psychological issues and are seeking an identity or extraordinary experiences
The filmmakers spent about 250 days filming over 4 years to create the 4-part documentary series
Joe Rogan believes spending time in nature and wilderness is important for humans psychologically, as we've become disconnected in urban environments
The documentary aims to shed light on the issues with keeping primates as pets and the exotic animal trade

Introduction

Joe Rogan welcomes Emmy-nominated filmmakers Eric Goode and Jeremy McBride to discuss their new HBO documentary series "Chimp Crazy". The series explores the world of people who keep chimpanzees and other primates as pets in the United States. Goode and McBride previously created the hit Netflix series "Tiger King" about exotic cat owners.

The conversation covers the making of "Chimp Crazy", the dangers of keeping chimpanzees as pets, the psychology of exotic animal owners, wildlife conservation issues, and reflections on humanity's relationship with nature and animals.

Topics Discussed

Making of "Chimp Crazy" Documentary (38:00)

The filmmakers discuss how they found subjects for the documentary and gained their trust to film:

They spent about 4 years making the series, filming over 250 days
They cast a wide net initially, filming many different stories before focusing on the main subjects
It took about 1.5 years before they discovered Tanya, one of the main subjects
They try to film subjects in an intimate, natural way without setting up scenarios
Gaining trust is difficult as exotic animal owners are often guarded and paranoid

Eric Goode explains: "We just start filming somebody never knowing, of course, where this is going to go. And that is not a good, smart way to make probably documentaries because what if it goes nowhere?"

Dangers of Keeping Chimpanzees as Pets (49:30)

The conversation covers why chimpanzees are extremely dangerous to keep as pets:

Chimpanzees are 5 times stronger than humans and become uncontrollable after 4-5 years old
They can cause severe injuries by biting off fingers, attacking faces, etc.
Chimpanzees are highly intelligent and can figure out how to escape enclosures
Many owners alter chimps by removing teeth, castrating them, using shock collars
There have been several high-profile chimp attacks on humans, like the case of Travis in Connecticut

Joe Rogan comments: "If you understand chimpanzees, the person who had that chimpanzee is responsible, it's not this man who's defending his life. You are so vulnerable to a chimpanzee. If they decide to get after you, there's not a lot you can do."

Psychology of Exotic Animal Owners (1:03:00)

The filmmakers discuss their observations about the psychology of people who keep exotic animals as pets:

Many seem to have psychological issues or are seeking an identity
They are often addicted to extraordinary experiences
Some use the animals as "chick bait" to attract romantic partners
Many have never seen the animals in the wild and aren't curious about their natural habitats
There's often a disconnect between their love for the animal and the animal's wellbeing

Joe Rogan observes: "If you have a boring a*s f**king life in some middle of nowhere town, but you also have a lion, life's pretty interesting, you know?"

Legal Status of Keeping Primates as Pets (1:27:00)

The filmmakers provide information on the current legal status of keeping primates as pets in the US:

It is still legal to own chimpanzees as pets in about 20 states
There is no federal law preventing ownership of primates
An estimated 15,000 people in America have primates as pets
There are only about 1300 chimpanzees remaining in captivity in the US total
About half of captive chimps are now in sanctuaries

Jeremy McBride notes: "In terms of the roadside zoo, private home environment, it's between less than 100 chimpanzees that remain in captivity."

Wildlife Conservation Efforts (2:08:00)

The conversation touches on some wildlife conservation topics:

The filmmakers donated $1 million to tiger conservation in India after Tiger King
There are debates around reintroducing species like wolves and grizzly bears
Hunting can play a role in conservation by controlling populations
Urban populations often don't understand rural human-wildlife conflicts
It's difficult to reintroduce captive animals to the wild in most cases

Eric Goode comments: "If you want to keep animal-human conflict at bay, keep wild animals in the wild."

Humanity's Relationship with Nature (2:17:00)

Joe Rogan reflects on how humans have become disconnected from nature:

Most urban dwellers rarely spend time alone in nature
Cities have made people "soft, lazy and entitled"
We've lost touch with what it meant to be human for hundreds of thousands of years
There's a "vitamin" we get from wilderness that we don't know we're lacking
Our "prison of our own choosing" in cities is not good for us psychologically

Joe states: "We don't think we are [connected to nature] because we live in an apartment and we play Nintendo and, you know, we're locked into this thing that human beings have created, but we're missing something."

Ethics of Zoos and Animal Captivity (2:24:00)

The discussion touches on ethical issues around zoos and keeping animals in captivity:

Many zoo animals like elephants and cetaceans are not happy in captivity
Documentaries like Blackfish have increased awareness of captivity issues
There are debates around the educational value of zoos vs. their downsides
Some species may be appropriate for zoos while others suffer greatly
Historically, even humans were put on display in zoos, showing how views have evolved

Joe argues: "At a certain point in time, we got to wake up and go, hey, putting a dolphin in a f**king swimming pool is evil."

Conclusion

Joe Rogan praises the filmmakers for creating an engaging and important documentary that sheds light on the issues with keeping primates as pets. He believes the series gives viewers a better understanding of human psychology through the lens of these exotic animal owners.

The conversation highlights the dangers of keeping animals like chimpanzees as pets, the psychological motivations of exotic pet owners, and broader questions about humanity's relationship with nature and wildlife. While laws are changing, there is still work to be done to address the exotic animal trade and improve animal welfare.

Ultimately, the documentary and discussion serve to increase awareness about these complex issues at the intersection of human behavior, animal welfare, and wildlife conservation. As Joe notes, understanding these fringe cases can lead to greater self-reflection about our own relationships with animals and the natural world.