July 2, 2024 • 2hr 22min

#2172 - Sebastian Junger

The Joe Rogan Experience

In this episode of The Joe Rogan Experience, host Joe Rogan interviews Sebastian Junger, a bestselling author, journalist, and documentary filmmaker. Junger discusses his latest book "In My Time of Dying", which explores his profound near-death experience and subsequent investigation into the nature of consciousness, mortality, and the possibility of an afterlife. The conversation delves into Junger's personal brush with death, the phenomenon of near-death experiences, evolutionary psychology, human aggression, and philosophical musings on the nature of existence.

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Key Takeaways

Sebastian Junger had a near-death experience due to an undiagnosed aneurysm that ruptured, causing severe internal bleeding. He lost about 2/3 of his blood volume and was minutes away from death before being saved by emergency surgery.
During his near-death experience, Junger saw a dark abyss he felt he was being pulled into, and his deceased father appeared to him, seemingly offering to guide him to the afterlife. This experience, while profound, did not change Junger's atheist beliefs.
Junger explores the phenomenon of near-death experiences (NDEs) and their potential implications, noting the consistency of certain elements like seeing deceased loved ones across many NDE accounts.
While remaining atheist, Junger's experience opened him to the possibility that there may be aspects of consciousness and reality that we don't fully understand, potentially at the quantum level.
Junger argues humans are in a "sweet spot" of uncertainty about the afterlife - having neither definitive proof of its existence nor its absence allows us to find maximum meaning in our finite lives.
The discussion touches on themes of human aggression, evolution, the nature of consciousness, and how different cultures and religions have attempted to make sense of existence and mortality.

Introduction

In this episode of The Joe Rogan Experience, host Joe Rogan interviews Sebastian Junger, a bestselling author, journalist, and documentary filmmaker. Junger discusses his latest book "In My Time of Dying", which explores his profound near-death experience and subsequent investigation into the nature of consciousness, mortality, and the possibility of an afterlife. The conversation delves into Junger's personal brush with death, the phenomenon of near-death experiences, evolutionary psychology, human aggression, and philosophical musings on the nature of existence.

Topics Discussed

Junger's Near-Death Experience (35:04)

Junger recounts his harrowing experience with a ruptured aneurysm that nearly killed him. He describes the sudden onset of pain, rapid blood loss, and his wife's crucial role in getting him to the hospital.

Junger lost about 2/3 of his blood volume and was minutes away from death
Emergency surgery using interventional radiology saved his life
He emphasizes the importance of blood donation, crediting ten anonymous donors for his survival

"I'm alive. My daughters have a father, because ten people who I'll never know donated their blood," Junger states, highlighting the life-saving impact of blood donation.

The Near-Death Experience and Visions (43:05)

Junger describes the vivid experiences he had while near death, including seeing a dark abyss and his deceased father.

He felt he was being pulled into a dark, infinite void
His deceased father appeared, seeming to offer guidance to the afterlife
Junger rejected the offer, wanting to stay with his family

"Dad, what are you doing here? Like, and there he was. And he communicated to me... the idea was, you don't have to fight it. You can come with me. I'll take care of you. It's okay. It's okay. Don't be scared," Junger recounts.

Exploring Near-Death Experiences (NDEs) (1:03:23)

Junger discusses his subsequent research into near-death experiences and their potential implications.

NDEs often share common elements across cultures and throughout history
Many people report seeing deceased loved ones during NDEs
Some researchers argue NDEs provide evidence for an afterlife, while others attribute them to brain chemistry

"There's a whole body of literature, a whole body of knowledge, and frankly, a whole cottage industry, somewhat shameless cottage industry around that know, proof of heaven, blah, blah, blah. But. But the flakiness aside, there's some legit. It's very, very common," Junger explains.

Consciousness and the Nature of Reality (1:20:50)

The conversation shifts to discussing theories about consciousness and quantum physics, exploring potential explanations for NDEs and the nature of reality.

Junger introduces the concept of biocentrism, which posits consciousness as fundamental to the universe
They discuss how quantum physics reveals strange behaviors at the subatomic level
The possibility of post-death existence at a quantum level is considered

"Maybe there is some sort of post death existence at the sort of quantum meaning, the subatomic level that we just don't understand," Junger suggests.

Atheism, Agnosticism, and Belief (1:52:25)

Junger explains his continued atheism despite his experiences and explores the nuances between atheism, agnosticism, and belief.

Junger maintains his atheist stance, defining it as a lack of belief rather than a claim of certainty
They discuss the difference between atheism and agnosticism
The conversation touches on the potential benefits and drawbacks of religious belief

"I would never, ever say, oh, there is no God. I would never assert that... I would say, I don't believe in God. I don't run my life according to a belief in God," Junger clarifies.

Human Aggression and Evolution (2:10:16)

The discussion turns to human aggression, its evolutionary roots, and its impact on history and society.

Junger argues that aggression has been evolutionarily rewarded
They discuss examples like Genghis Khan's genetic legacy
The unique human trait of forming coalitions for defense is highlighted

"Arguably the most aggressive man on the planet in history was Genghis Khan. And he left the largest genetic footprint on the human genome, on the human race of any individual ever," Junger points out.

The Human Journey and Societal Progress (2:14:36)

Rogan and Junger reflect on human progress, the challenges we face, and our place in history.

They discuss how life has generally improved over time, despite ongoing conflicts
The role of global alliances in potentially stabilizing conflicts is considered
They speculate on how future generations might view our current actions and conflicts

"Things get better over time, but it's a slow, slow process. And we're in the middle of it," Rogan observes.

Conclusion

This wide-ranging conversation between Joe Rogan and Sebastian Junger covers profound territory, from Junger's personal brush with death to broader philosophical questions about the nature of existence, consciousness, and human behavior. Junger's near-death experience serves as a jumping-off point for exploring the phenomenon of NDEs, theories about consciousness, and the intersection of science and spirituality. While Junger maintains his atheist stance, his experience has opened him to considering that there may be aspects of reality we don't yet understand. The discussion also touches on human aggression, evolution, and societal progress, providing a multifaceted exploration of what it means to be human in the face of mortality. Ultimately, the conversation highlights the ongoing mystery of consciousness and existence, suggesting that while we've made great strides in understanding our world, there's still much to discover about the nature of reality and our place within it.