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October 6, 2024 • 1hr 18min
Becoming a conscious leader: Leading without fear, finding your life’s objective function, and getting better at vision and strategy | John Mark Nickels (Uber, Waymo, DoorDash)
Lenny's Podcast: Product | Growth | Career
In this episode, Lenny interviews JM Nickels, a Senior Director of Product Management at Uber who previously held leadership roles at Waymo and DoorDash. JM shares insights on conscious leadership, developing vision and strategy skills, balancing execution with big-picture thinking, and keys to living a successful and fulfilling life. The conversation covers both practical product leadership advice as well as deeper reflections on personal growth and finding meaning in work and life.
Becoming a conscious leader: Leading without fear, finding your life’s objective function, and getting better at vision and strategy | John Mark Nickels (Uber, Waymo, DoorDash)
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Key Takeaways
- Conscious leadership involves becoming more aware of your interior world, biases, and inherited belief systems, then taking responsibility for your influence in the world
- Soft skills and emotional intelligence are crucial for effective leadership. Welcoming emotions in the workplace, rather than suppressing them, can lead to better decision-making and team dynamics
- To develop vision and strategy skills, deeply immerse yourself in an area you're passionate about, think from first principles, and visualize potential futures
- Balance vision and execution - avoid getting stuck in theory without action, but also don't execute blindly without direction
- Take responsibility and agency for your life and career instead of falling into a victim mentality
- Keys to a fulfilling life include getting clear on your values/priorities, being mindful of mortality to focus on what truly matters, and nurturing important relationships
Introduction
In this episode, Lenny interviews JM Nickels, a Senior Director of Product Management at Uber who previously held leadership roles at Waymo and DoorDash. JM shares insights on conscious leadership, developing vision and strategy skills, balancing execution with big-picture thinking, and keys to living a successful and fulfilling life. The conversation covers both practical product leadership advice as well as deeper reflections on personal growth and finding meaning in work and life.
Topics Discussed
Conscious Leadership (2:42)
JM defines conscious leadership as becoming more aware of your interior world, biases, and inherited belief systems, then taking responsibility for your influence. He emphasizes that everyone is a leader in some capacity because we all have influence in the world.
- Leadership is broadly defined as having influence, not just being a manager
- Consciousness involves becoming more aware of your interior world, biases, and inherited beliefs
- Taking responsibility for your influence in the world is key
The Power of Soft Skills (3:59)
JM discusses how his approach to leadership has evolved to focus more on soft skills like creating space for others and being mindful of power dynamics. He notes that as a senior leader, he tries to hear from others first and doesn't need to "win" every argument.
- Create space for junior team members to speak up
- Be mindful of power dynamics as a senior leader
- Focus on hearing from others rather than dominating conversations
Uber's Evolution (7:55)
JM shares his perspective on Uber's evolution through different eras, from the early "pirate ship" days under Travis Kalanick to the current more mature, profitable company. He notes how the company has expanded beyond just UberX to explore many new transportation modalities.
- Uber 1.0: Travis Kalanick era, fast growth but challenging culture
- Uber 2.0: Leadership transition, IPO challenges
- Uber 3.0: Current era of profitability and expansion into new transportation modes
Embracing Emotions and Inner Work (12:41)
JM advocates for embracing emotions in the workplace rather than suppressing them. He shares how doing inner work and becoming more aware of his emotional state has made him a more effective leader.
"What you resist will persist and what you fear will appear." - JM Nickels
- Allow emotions rather than trying to suppress them
- Recognize that emotions provide valuable signals and wisdom
- Practice noticing physical sensations associated with different emotions
Crafting Strategy and Vision (21:46)
JM shares his approach to developing strategy and vision skills. He emphasizes the importance of passion for the problem space, deep immersion in an area over time, first principles thinking, and visualizing potential futures.
- Find a mission you're truly passionate about
- Deeply immerse yourself in an area over time
- Practice first principles thinking to question assumptions
- Visualize potential futures 5-10 years out
Balancing Vision and Execution (41:16)
JM discusses the importance of balancing big picture vision with execution. He cautions against getting stuck in theory without action, but also warns against executing blindly without direction.
- Avoid getting stuck in "theory land" without taking action
- Don't execute blindly without a clear direction
- Adjust the balance between vision and execution as needed
Lessons from DoorDash, Uber, and Waymo (46:13)
JM shares key lessons and observations from his time at different companies:
- DoorDash: More merchant-centric vs Uber's consumer focus
- Uber: Evolution from rider-centric to balancing rider and driver needs
- Waymo: Challenges of transitioning from solving self-driving to building a full ride-hailing business
The Future of Autonomous Ride-Hailing (52:32)
JM discusses the current state and potential future of autonomous vehicles in ride-hailing. He notes the progress made by companies like Waymo but also highlights the complexities beyond just solving self-driving technology.
- Companies like Waymo have made significant progress on self-driving tech
- Building a full autonomous ride-hailing business involves many other challenges
- Partnerships between AV companies and existing ride-hailing networks may be beneficial
Contrarian Corner: Embracing Emotions in the Workplace (55:18)
In the "Contrarian Corner" segment, JM argues for the value of embracing emotions in the workplace, contrary to the common belief that emotions should be left at home.
- Emotions provide valuable signals and wisdom
- Acknowledging emotions can improve team dynamics and decision-making
- Practice noticing and naming emotions in work contexts
Keys to a Fulfilling Life (59:47)
JM shares his perspective on keys to living a successful, impactful, and fulfilling life:
- Get clear on your values and "objective function" for life
- Consider decisions from the perspective of your future self
- Be mindful of mortality to focus on what truly matters
- Prioritize relationships and experiences over short-term career gains
Taking Responsibility and Agency (1:04:45)
JM emphasizes the importance of taking responsibility for your life and career rather than falling into a victim mentality. He encourages shifting from feeling that life is happening to you to recognizing your ability to shape your experience.
- Break out of victim consciousness
- Take responsibility for how you see and respond to the world
- Recognize your ability to shape your experience, even in difficult circumstances
Lightning Round and Final Thoughts (1:07:29)
In the lightning round, JM shares book recommendations, favorite products, and a life motto. He also tells a humorous anecdote about Travis Kalanick's paranoia about competitor spying.
- Book recommendations: "The 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership" by Diana Chapman and Jim Dethmer, "Resonate" by Nancy Duarte
- Favorite product: Eight Sleep smart mattress
- Life motto: "Beyond all polarities, I am"
Conclusion
This wide-ranging conversation with JM Nickels offers valuable insights for product leaders looking to improve both their hard and soft skills. JM's emphasis on conscious leadership, embracing emotions, and taking responsibility provides a framework for personal and professional growth. His experiences at companies like Uber, DoorDash, and Waymo offer lessons on strategy, vision, and navigating complex marketplaces. Ultimately, JM's reflections on living a fulfilling life serve as a reminder to stay connected to one's values and prioritize what truly matters in both work and life.
