December 25, 2023 • 2hr 24min

Rick Rubin: Protocols to Access Creative Energy and Process

Huberman Lab

In this episode, Andrew Huberman interviews legendary music producer Rick Rubin for a second time to answer listener questions about creativity, health practices, and Rubin's approach to his work. Rubin has produced numerous award-winning artists across genres and recently authored a book on creativity called "The Creative Act: A Way of Being." The discussion covers Rubin's daily routines, views on the creative process, health practices, and insights from his long career in the music industry.

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Key Takeaways

Rick Rubin practices coherence breathing for 10-20 minutes daily to improve heart rate variability
Rubin emphasizes the importance of getting sunlight exposure early in the day for regulating circadian rhythms and sleep
He avoids bright artificial light at night and uses red light/glasses in the evening to support natural circadian rhythms
Rubin lost 135 pounds through a high protein, low calorie, low carb diet after being vegan for many years
He believes creativity comes from tapping into the unconscious mind and instincts rather than the intellectual self
Rubin focuses on the creative process itself rather than outcomes or expectations when making art
He captures ideas by making notes in his phone but doesn't have a formal system for organizing them
Rubin aims to create an intimate, personal conversational style on his podcast Tetragrammaton
He emphasizes the importance of honesty and truth in relationships
Rubin believes formal education is becoming obsolete for many fields and real-world experience is often more valuable

Introduction

In this episode, Andrew Huberman interviews legendary music producer Rick Rubin for a second time to answer listener questions about creativity, health practices, and Rubin's approach to his work. Rubin has produced numerous award-winning artists across genres and recently authored a book on creativity called "The Creative Act: A Way of Being." The discussion covers Rubin's daily routines, views on the creative process, health practices, and insights from his long career in the music industry.

Topics Discussed

Coherence Breathing Practice (5:34)

Rubin demonstrates and discusses his daily coherence breathing practice:

He does 5-10 minutes of slow, rhythmic breathing at least once daily
The practice involves 6 breaths per minute guided by audio cues
Rubin counts breaths to occupy his mind during the practice
He finds it improves his heart rate variability when done consistently

Sunlight Exposure and Circadian Rhythms (15:43)

Rubin emphasizes the importance of sunlight exposure:

He tries to get sunlight exposure as early as possible after waking
Rubin avoids wearing sunglasses to allow proper light signals to reach the eyes/brain
He believes sunlight is crucial for regulating circadian rhythms and sleep
Rubin recounts discussing this with a dermatologist who was surprised by his healthy skin despite sun exposure

Artificial Intelligence and Creativity (23:37)

On AI and creativity:

Rubin is uncertain about AI's creative potential as he values human points of view in art
He's unsure if AI can develop its own unique artistic perspective
Rubin is more interested in human creativity and expression

Overcoming Creative Blocks (27:07)

Rubin's advice for overcoming creative blocks:

Creative blocks often stem from self-judgment or fear of outside judgment
He recommends treating creative work like a personal diary entry without expectations
Focus on being honest about your current experience rather than outcomes
Remember that creative ideas don't solely come from within - be open to outside inspiration

Dealing with Uncertainty in the Creative Process (35:05)

On embracing uncertainty:

Rubin is generally comfortable with uncertainty in the creative process
He still feels some anxiety at the start of new projects
Rubin accepts uncertainty as inherent to creativity
He focuses on the work itself rather than outcomes

Working with Artists and Emotional Support (35:40)

On supporting artists emotionally:

Rubin will discuss personal issues if they interfere with the work
The focus is on completing the creative project
Sometimes the process becomes therapeutic to enable the work

Experiencing Pro Wrestling (39:48)

Rubin discusses his love of pro wrestling:

He finds it relaxing as there are no real stakes - it's choreographed
Rubin enjoys the theatrical, acrobatic, and storytelling elements
He sees wrestling as reflecting real-world ambiguity about truth

Approach to Creating Art (48:18)

On the creative mindset:

Rubin emphasizes not focusing on outcomes when creating
He views creative work as a "devotional practice" rather than for a specific result
Rubin recommends only considering outcomes after completing a work

Handling Business Aspects of Creative Work (56:40)

On business and finances:

Rubin avoids handling financial negotiations himself
He tries to stay focused solely on the creative work
Rubin believes creative solutions can overcome financial limitations

Capturing and Developing Creative Ideas (1:18:44)

On managing creative ideas:

Rubin makes notes in his phone to capture ideas
He doesn't have a formal system for organizing ideas
Sometimes he can't decipher his own cryptic notes later

Views on Money and Creativity (1:19:29)

Rubin's perspective on finances:

He tries not to think about money in relation to creative work
Rubin believes ingenuity can overcome financial limitations
He focuses on ideas and execution rather than budgets

Daily Routine and Health Practices (1:48:12)

Rubin describes his typical daily routine:

Wakes up and gets sunlight exposure as soon as possible
Goes for a long beach walk or to the gym about an hour after waking
Avoids work-related activities until around 11am-1pm
Does focused work from around 1pm-6pm
Uses only red light in the evening and wears red lens glasses
Aims to be in bed by 10pm and asleep within 15 minutes

Thoughts on Education and Learning (1:57:25)

Rubin's views on education:

He believes formal education is becoming obsolete for many fields
Rubin recommends real-world experience through internships/mentors
He thinks learning from practitioners is often more valuable than academic study

Approach to Relationships (1:58:44)

On maintaining healthy relationships:

Rubin believes work should ideally be the most stressful part of life
He emphasizes honesty and truth as crucial in relationships
Rubin sees relationships as long-term commitments to meet each other's needs

Current Projects (2:13:01)

Rubin discusses his current work:

Working on documentary projects
Producing albums for artists like Marcus King
New album with the band Gossip coming out soon

Approach to Podcasting (2:14:32)

On his podcast Tetragrammaton:

Aims for intimate, personal conversations
Focuses on his genuine interests rather than performing for an audience
Tries to create a natural, comfortable environment for guests

Conclusion

This wide-ranging conversation offers numerous insights into Rick Rubin's creative process, daily routines, and overall philosophy on art and life. Key themes include embracing uncertainty, focusing on the work itself rather than outcomes, and maintaining honesty in relationships. Rubin emphasizes the importance of tapping into the unconscious mind for creativity while also discussing practical aspects like coherence breathing and controlling light exposure for better health. His unique perspective as a legendary producer shines through in his approach to music, podcasting, and nurturing artists' creativity.