February 5, 2024 • 2hr 31min

Dr. Kay Tye: The Biology of Social Interactions and Emotions

Huberman Lab

In this episode, Dr. Andrew Huberman interviews Dr. Kay Tye, Professor of Neuroscience at the Salk Institute and Howard Hughes Medical Institute Investigator. They discuss Dr. Tye's groundbreaking research on the neural circuits underlying social interactions, emotions, and psychedelic effects. The conversation covers a wide range of topics including the amygdala's role in processing both positive and negative stimuli, the discovery of "loneliness neurons", social homeostasis, social media's impact on the brain, social rank and hierarchy, psychedelic mechanisms, and reforming academic culture.

0:00

-0:00

Key Takeaways

The amygdala is involved in processing both positive and negative emotional stimuli, not just fear as commonly believed. It plays a key role in assigning motivational significance to stimuli.
Dr. Tye discovered "loneliness neurons" in the brain that encode the unpleasant need state of wanting social contact. This has implications for understanding social isolation and loneliness.
Social homeostasis refers to our sense of having enough, not enough, or just the right amount of social interaction. This set point can shift over time.
Social media interactions likely do not provide the same level of social nourishment as in-person interactions due to lack of real-time synchrony and mutual investment.
The brain encodes social rank and hierarchy. Dr. Tye's lab is studying how rank is represented neurally and how it impacts behavior.
Psychedelic compounds like psilocybin may increase neuroplasticity and flexibility between brain states. Dr. Tye is studying their neural mechanisms.
Having diverse interests and work-life balance is important for scientists. Dr. Tye advocates for changing academic culture to be more inclusive and sustainable.

Introduction

In this episode, Dr. Andrew Huberman interviews Dr. Kay Tye, Professor of Neuroscience at the Salk Institute and Howard Hughes Medical Institute Investigator. They discuss Dr. Tye's groundbreaking research on the neural circuits underlying social interactions, emotions, and psychedelic effects. The conversation covers a wide range of topics including the amygdala's role in processing both positive and negative stimuli, the discovery of "loneliness neurons", social homeostasis, social media's impact on the brain, social rank and hierarchy, psychedelic mechanisms, and reforming academic culture.

Topics Discussed

The Amygdala's Role in Processing Emotions (6:42)

Dr. Tye explains that while the amygdala is commonly associated with fear, it actually plays a much broader role in processing emotions and assigning motivational significance to stimuli:

The amygdala responds to both positive and negative stimuli, not just fear
It is involved in selecting whether a stimulus is assigned positive or negative valence
Different neurons in the amygdala encode reward vs fear/punishment
The amygdala acts as a "fork in the road" for processing emotional valence

"We found essentially that when you induce plasticity, you get a synaptic strengthening. When animals learn things, amygdala neurons fire in response to cues that predict rewards. And this was coming into the context of a field that had shown that this happens with fear." - Dr. Kay Tye

Discovery of "Loneliness Neurons" (43:44)

Dr. Tye describes how her lab accidentally discovered neurons that appear to encode loneliness:

Found neurons in dorsal raphe that were activated by social isolation
When stimulated, animals avoid the stimulation but become more prosocial
This mirrors the unpleasant feeling of loneliness that drives seeking social contact
May represent a "need state" similar to hunger driving food-seeking behavior

"I think we've discovered the loneliness neurons, essentially. And so what is loneliness? And loneliness is this unpleasant need state of wanting social contact that would have this prosocial effect as well." - Dr. Kay Tye

Social Homeostasis (51:47)

Dr. Tye introduces the concept of social homeostasis - our sense of having enough, not enough, or just the right amount of social interaction:

Our "social set point" can shift over time with chronic isolation or social contact
Explains why acute vs chronic social isolation produce different behavioral effects
May help understand pandemic effects on social behavior
Raises questions about what aspects of isolation are most harmful

"Thinking about your social set point as being flexible and dynamic was a new concept to me. And then in my mind the question is, what is the part of this process that is causing all these harmful health consequences, like shortened lifespan, mood disorders, et cetera?" - Dr. Kay Tye

Social Media and Social Nourishment (1:01:29)

They discuss how social media interactions likely do not provide the same level of social nourishment as in-person interactions:

Lack real-time synchrony and mutual investment
May create more social hunger rather than satiation
Quality of interaction matters, not just quantity
Social media often involves being excluded from others' activities

"I think social media is operating in a way that is not ethical and not designed to make us feel better. It's just designed to make us want to use it." - Dr. Kay Tye

Social Rank and Hierarchy (1:37:22)

Dr. Tye describes her lab's research on how the brain encodes social rank and hierarchy:

Studying how rank is represented neurally and impacts behavior
Looking at how rank changes when animals are regrouped
Found prefrontal cortex neurons can predict competitive success
Dominants and subordinates show different patterns of neural activity

"We found that prefrontal cortical neurons you could represent very stably and decode which animal was dominant regardless of the trial. And then when you looked at whether we could decode competitive success, meaning who is going to win that next trial?" - Dr. Kay Tye

Psychedelic Research (1:55:32)

Dr. Tye discusses her lab's research on the neural mechanisms of psychedelic compounds like psilocybin:

Studying how psychedelics impact neural representations of self vs other
Looking at effects on transitions between brain states
Examining impacts on behavior during conflict/ambiguity
Aiming to understand individual variability in responses

"We're recording from animals while we're giving them psilocybin using Neuropixels recordings. So recording from thousands of neurons in prefrontal cortex and other parts of cortex...And looking at how animals respond in a conflict task." - Dr. Kay Tye

Work-Life Balance and Reforming Academic Culture (2:06:28)

Dr. Tye advocates for work-life balance and changing academic culture:

Believes having diverse interests makes scientists more creative and resilient
Promotes work-life balance and wellbeing for lab members
Writing a book to provide more inclusive advice for young scientists
Wants to make academia a healthier, more sustainable environment

"I think that we need to sort of make a change. Nothing wrong necessarily about the intentions that were set hundreds of years ago, but things change and where we are now, and things are changing very quickly." - Dr. Kay Tye

Conclusion

This wide-ranging conversation between Dr. Huberman and Dr. Tye covered cutting-edge neuroscience research on social interactions, emotions, and psychedelic effects. Dr. Tye's work is reshaping our understanding of how the brain processes social information and emotional valence. Her discoveries of "loneliness neurons" and the concept of social homeostasis provide new frameworks for understanding social isolation and connection. The discussion of social media's impacts highlights the importance of quality social interactions for brain health. Dr. Tye's research on social rank and psychedelics opens up new avenues for understanding complex social behaviors and altered states of consciousness. Finally, her advocacy for work-life balance and reforming academic culture points to important directions for making science more inclusive and sustainable. Overall, this episode provides fascinating insights into the neurobiology of social and emotional experiences with implications for mental health and wellbeing.