June 5, 2023 • 2hr 37min

Dr. Immordino-Yang: How Emotions & Social Factors Impact Learning

Huberman Lab

In this episode, Dr. Andrew Huberman interviews Dr. Mary Helen Immordino-Yang, a professor of education, psychology and neuroscience at the University of Southern California. Dr. Immordino-Yang has done groundbreaking research on emotions, self-awareness, social interactions, and how these impact learning across the lifespan. The discussion explores how understanding emotions can improve learning for both children and adults, and how education systems should be altered to facilitate better learning outcomes and include more diverse learning styles.

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Key Takeaways

Emotions are fundamental drivers of learning and thinking. Our emotional states shape what we pay attention to and what we learn.
The brain and body are deeply interconnected in generating emotions and conscious experiences. Emotions arise from physiological states that are then elaborated into complex feelings and narratives.
Storytelling and narrative are key ways humans make meaning out of experiences and emotions. We construct stories to understand ourselves and the world.
Education systems should focus more on developing students as whole people, not just on transmitting information. Learning should be driven by curiosity and meaning-making.
Creating "safe spaces" for open discourse and idea exploration is crucial for learning and civic engagement. People need to feel psychologically safe to engage with challenging ideas.
Cross-cultural experiences and perspective-taking are valuable for developing empathy and understanding. Engaging with diverse viewpoints expands our thinking.
The ability to deconstruct and critically examine our own beliefs and assumptions is an important skill that should be cultivated through education.
Emotions about ideas, not just performance outcomes, should be the focus in education. Engaging students' curiosity and wonder is key for deep learning.
Social media and current discourse often reinforce biases rather than encouraging open-minded exploration of ideas. We need better spaces for civic reasoning.
Understanding the neuroscience of emotion and cognition can inform better approaches to education and public discourse. Science offers insights for improving how we learn and engage with each other.

Introduction

In this episode, Dr. Andrew Huberman interviews Dr. Mary Helen Immordino-Yang, a professor of education, psychology and neuroscience at the University of Southern California. Dr. Immordino-Yang has done groundbreaking research on emotions, self-awareness, social interactions, and how these impact learning across the lifespan. The discussion explores how understanding emotions can improve learning for both children and adults, and how education systems should be altered to facilitate better learning outcomes and include more diverse learning styles.

Topics Discussed

The Role of Emotions in Learning and Development (5:14)

Dr. Immordino-Yang explains that emotions are fundamental to how we learn and make meaning of experiences. She argues that our most complex mental states are rooted in basic biological survival mechanisms:

Our beliefs, experiences, and interpretations become the "through line" that organizes our conscious experience
When we connect to basic survival systems through narratives about reality, we get expansive emotional states of awe and inspiration
This connection between high-level meaning and basic biology is the "power of being human" at this stage of our evolution

The Brain-Body Connection in Generating Emotions (8:04)

The discussion explores how emotions arise from the interplay between brain and body:

The brain evolved to control and represent the state of the body
Bodily states provide the substrate for consciousness and mind
There is a dynamic conversation between brain, body, and mind across multiple timescales
We construct feelings and mental states out of basic physiological sensations

Dr. Immordino-Yang emphasizes that emotions are not just filters, but drivers that push us to think about particular things. Our emotions shape what we pay attention to and learn about.

The Development of Emotional Understanding (17:27)

Dr. Immordino-Yang shares examples of how children's understanding of emotions develops over time:

At age 2, her daughter expressed love very concretely by holding her mother's arm
By age 4, her daughter could conceptualize love more abstractly, comparing it to appreciating daytime
This shows how basic physiological attachment states get elaborated into more complex mental concepts over development

The Neuroscience of Complex Emotions (26:18)

The conversation explores research on the brain basis of complex social emotions:

Studies found that emotions about abstract virtues activated similar brain systems as emotions about physical pain
The key factor was whether the emotion required constructing a complex narrative, not whether it was positive or negative
This "transcendent" processing activates brain networks like the default mode network
These networks support autobiographical memory, ethics, and complex meaning-making

Implications for Education (1:11:14)

Dr. Immordino-Yang argues that education systems need major reforms:

Current systems focus too much on rote learning and performance metrics
Education should develop students as whole people, not just transmit information
Learning should be driven by curiosity and meaning-making, not just outcomes
Students need opportunities to explore ideas deeply and make interdisciplinary connections
Educators should tap into students' intrinsic motivations and interests

Creating Safe Spaces for Learning and Discourse (1:57:01)

The discussion emphasizes the importance of psychological safety for learning:

People need to feel safe to engage in deep thinking and perspective-taking
Feeling physically or emotionally unsafe inhibits activation of brain networks involved in complex reasoning
Education and civic spaces should foster trust to allow open exploration of ideas
This requires developing skills to deconstruct assumptions and engage different viewpoints

Cross-Cultural Experiences and Perspective-Taking (1:33:07)

Dr. Immordino-Yang shares how her diverse experiences shaped her approach:

She sought out opportunities to engage with different cultures from a young age
Experiences like working with street children in Siberia expanded her perspective
Engaging with diverse viewpoints helps develop empathy and understanding
Education should provide more opportunities for students to gain cross-cultural experiences

Deconstructing Beliefs and Assumptions (1:59:01)

The conversation emphasizes the importance of examining our own beliefs:

We need to develop dispositions to question our own motives and deconstruct assumptions
This allows us to engage more openly with others' perspectives
Education should cultivate these skills of self-reflection and critical thinking
Understanding the basis of our beliefs allows us to revise them when needed

Emotions and Idea Exploration in Learning (1:18:26)

Dr. Immordino-Yang argues that education should focus on engaging emotions about ideas:

Whatever students have emotions about is what they will learn about
If emotions are just about grades/outcomes, that's all students learn to care about
Emotions should be about the ideas and content to drive deeper learning
Curiosity and wonder about ideas should be cultivated

Social Media and Echo Chambers (1:05:22)

The discussion touches on how social media can reinforce biases:

People often only engage with viewpoints that reinforce existing beliefs
This creates "echo chambers" that limit exposure to diverse perspectives
We need better spaces for engaging different viewpoints productively
Understanding others' disagreement helps us understand our own positions better

Neuroscience Insights for Education and Discourse (2:03:28)

The conversation explores how neuroscience can inform better approaches:

Understanding brain networks involved in complex reasoning can guide educational practices
Insights about emotion and cognition can improve how we structure learning environments
Neuroscience shows the importance of psychological safety for engaging challenging ideas
This knowledge can help create better spaces for civic discourse and reasoning

Conclusion

This wide-ranging conversation between Dr. Huberman and Dr. Immordino-Yang explored the deep connections between emotions, learning, and human development. Key themes included the fundamental role of emotions in driving what we pay attention to and learn, the importance of narrative and meaning-making in how we construct our understanding of the world, and how education systems and civic discourse can be improved by tapping into our innate curiosity and creating psychologically safe spaces for idea exploration. The discussion highlighted how insights from neuroscience and psychology can inform better approaches to education and public engagement with complex ideas. Overall, the conversation emphasized the need to cultivate skills of self-reflection, perspective-taking, and critical examination of beliefs to create more adaptive and flourishing societies.